October 14, 2003
bench clearing brawls
i post the following from rink blog, not ONLY because it supports my arguments against critics of hockey, but because doug (my foremost critic) and i have discussed this very issue, and doug called me a big fat liar. or at least, he didn't believe me that there are more bench-clearing brawls in baseball than in hockey. cue rinkblog:
Who can forget the old Rodney Dangerfield joke, "I went to a boxing match....and a hockey game broke out." Maybe its time to update that one-liner. How about "I went to a hockey game.....and a basebrawl broke out." Say what you will about fighting -- an actual part of the game -- but when is the last time you've seen a bench-clearing brawl in hockey? It was probably right before the NHL beefed up Rule 72, which mandates stiff penalties for players who leave the bench or penalty box to fight.
(c)The first player to leave the players' or penalty bench from either or both Teams shall be suspended automatically without pay for the next ten (10) regular League and/or playoff games of his Team.
(d)The second player to leave the bench from either or both Teams shall be suspended automatically without pay for the next five (5) regular League and/or playoff games.
(g)Any player who leaves the penalty bench during an altercation and is not the first player to do so, shall be suspended automatically without pay for the next five (5) regular League and/or playoff games.
I feel safe making this statement: Baseball has had more bench-clearing brawls in this year's playoffs than hockey has had in the past five seasons, incudling the playoffs. Take that, hockey critics. [source]
last time doug and i were engaged in our argum--er, civil discussions--about bench clearing brawls, you couldn't watch sportscenter without seeing highlights of some brawl. there was at least one per day MLB-wide. nothing has changed, but now its october and there are only four teams left playing.
so my point? this is another area where hockey players are smarter than other athletes. in the NHL playoffs, the number of fights drops off to about, oh...ZERO. in MLB you've got the same catty, whiny selfishness all year round.
i thought it was particularly funny that pedro martinez decided to bean somebody, then stare him down (game 3). he's done that before, and i think it is the most idiotic thing ever. if a pitcher throws at a guy's head, then engages in any action like unto taunting, he should be thrown out and fined. pedro has lost all of my respect. and he lost the game.
now, about manny and sammy. those two are my heroes, but both took occasion to react to somewhat high, somewhat inside pitches with an outrage usually reserved for fascist republican regimes. ("he's throwing at me! he's throwing at me!") give me a break, chums. i know that ball is coming at you fast, but if you flinch when you don't have to, just laugh it off.
and--as long as we're still playing baseball--go cubbies.
UPDATE: if you don't mind VERY gratuitous use of salty language, allah has some VERY funny stuff to say about the donnybrook. in fact, he manages to employ the english, spanish, hebrew, and arabic languages in his explanation, as well as references to holy scripture and the movie zoolander. tip to leaning towards the dark side
UPDATE: somehow i'd missed that pedro was fined $50,000. continue reading this entry to read about pedro's life of foolishness.
Baseball is not a nice game. The nation's pastime remains an Old Testament game in the new millennium.
That was apparent Saturday in the fourth inning at Fenway Park. Not that the Yankees and Red Sox need much incentive to stir things up. But Boston pitcher Pedro Martinez dosed baseball's nastiest feud with a bucket of gasoline. Afterward, Martinez claimed he wasn't intentionally throwing at Yankees outfielder Karim Garcia. If you believe that, I have a drawer full of dot-com stock to sell you.
The skillful Martinez puts the baseball where he wants it. In this case, the target was Garcia's head.
The motive was childish. Martinez was peeved because the Yankees touched him for four runs. Martinez had revenge -- not team -- on his mind.
The Red Sox trailed 4-2. The subsequent rhubarb shifted the focus from baseball to blood and sent fear up to bat for the Red Sox. After all, Roger Clemens, no shrinking violet himself, was on the mound for the Yankees.
In the top of the fifth, Clemens threw a fastball head high over the plate. It was enough to make a nervous Manny Ramirez blow. Ramirez wasn't looking for a pitch to drive, he was looking for one to duck. When order was restored, Ramirez struck out weakly on a pitch way outside. Martinez should have been credited with an assist.
Pedro's history for shenanigans reaches back to his minor league days. Dave Brundage, the former Oregon State star and manager of the Mariners' Double A team in San Antonio, recalls an incident years ago when Martinez pitched for the Dodgers' Triple A team in Albuquerque, N.M.
Brundage was playing for the Mariners' Triple A Calgary team, which was losing to the Dodgers' farm club 15-3. The Calgary catcher homered off Martinez. The diminutive right-hander hit the next batter in the head, sparking a brawl and his ejection.
The Calgary pitcher drilled the first batter the next inning; both benches emptied again. At one point, Brundage looked over at the exasperated Albuquerque manager, former Dodgers shortstop Bill Russell. "And Russell is saying to his players, 'I am going to lock the doors and you guys can beat the hell out of Pedro.' "
With Martinez out of the game, Brundage's team rebounded to win 15-14.
There is etiquette to the mayhem surrounding beanball wars. In the old days, pitchers were told to throw at a batter's head when asked to protect their own hitters. It was easier to move your head and avoid such a pitch, the logic of those nastier days held.
Today, the rule is to hit the batter in the backside and avoid his head or upper body.
But throw at him you must if the opposing pitcher has been inconsiderate with his location. Fear, the pitcher's friend, is the batter's nemesis.
After a batter has been intentionally hit, the opposing manager won't always order the next batter plunked. Sometimes, you wreak more havoc by making hitters wonder.
Two years ago, Brundage's San Antonio team brawled with the Rangers' club in the Texas League. An opposing player sucker punched Brundage. Brundage's pitcher was eager for revenge, but Brundage said no.
"I told my guys, 'Let's wait and use it our advantage,' " he said. "Let's make them feel a little uncomfortable and make them wonder when is it coming."
The Rangers' Double A hitters wondered for the next three games and lost all three.
Martinez wouldn't be so reckless if he played in the National League, where pitchers bat. The designated hitter not only diminishes the nuances of strategy, but allows pitchers to duck the game's checks and balances.
But Saturday, Martinez couldn't duck one fact: He indulged his temper and took his Red Sox out of the game. Major League Baseball fined him $50,000, but Martinez cost Boston a pivotal game in the American League championship series.
Brian Meehan: 503-221-4341; brianmeehan@news.oregonian.com [link]
Posted by travis at October 14, 2003 10:09 AM | TrackBackFollow this link, the intro is hilarious.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2003/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=1637572
By Jim Caple
ESPN.com
BOSTON -- If you enjoy bench-clearing brawls, bullpen riots and midget bowling -- and when you get right down to it, who doesn't? -- you were out of luck when the Red Sox and Yankees resumed their series Monday night. Heck, two batters were hit by pitches and no one so much as gave anyone the evil eye.No beanballs. No tear gas. No elderly coaches charging the field in their walkers.
Where's the passion?
yeah, that is pretty funny.
Posted by: travis at October 14, 2003 05:13 PMAnd hockey is just a poor persecuted sport where violence is looked down upon...puh-lease...
When there is a fight in baseball, the benches clear, probably because there isn't a "rule 72". In hockey, the two guys just beat eachother senseless. The teammates don't get involved.
Some would argue that baseball players at least have the guts to defend the "pride" of the team, their teammate, or whatever (despite any consequences of possibly getting fined/suspended for throwing punches themselves)...
The irony of your argument (or should I say, rinkblog's argument) is that it doesn't address the merits of what we've discussed before. You can add all kinds of qualifiers to the word fight or brawl (eg. "bench clearing" brawl) but the fact remains that there are more fights in hockey. Period.
That there have been more "bench clearing" fights in baseball is irrelevant, unless you believe that a fight didn't occur if everybody didn't leave the bench.
Get over it already! As a hockey fan myself, although admittedly not a fanatic, I might be going on a limb here, but I'm guessing that the fighting is something that most (all?) hockey fans love about hockey. It's about the only sport where the refs don't step in and stop every scuffle. Hey, let 'em fight! But don't disrespect what hockey fanatics might call a "treasured nuance" of the sport...
doug,
i'm merely returning to our old argument. don't you remember it?
you: hockey is a disgusting, gross sport where men (gasp) FIGHT!
me: yes, but you've got to admit that they fight a lot in baseball--this season i've probably seen an average of a bench-clearing brawl per day on sportscenter.
you: hockey is gross and disgusting and i will not be reasoned with.
see? doug, it is SO HARD to get through to you! i don't know why i even try anymore.
/sarcasm
Posted by: travis at October 14, 2003 08:34 PMPerhaps the continuation of the above conversation is in order:
Travis: so you can't be reasoned with...alright...cool...i will not be reasoned with, either.
Doug: Then this is what I would call a standstill; a draw, if you will.
Travis: that's funny, i would call it a topic on which i can blog ENDLESSLY...
me:...but at least i blog about SOMETHING.
derek zoolander, er, doug: (staring at his reflection in a puddle) i guess i have a lot of things to ponder...
hansel, er, travis: (riding by on a scooter, hot chick in tow) what's left to ponder?
doug: (silence--perhaps pondering)
travis: nice comeback!
jacobim mugatu: that travis--he's SO hot right now
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I will have to intervenve as the only person who has not lived in South America for a long period of time. Baseball was fun when I was a kid and loved popcorn, foulballs, and Dale Murphy. Then I realized that great things happen in a baseball game about 1 every 88 innings. Too much waiting, and the field is too big. We need games with constant action and goals with nets. Forget the fighting, stats prove hockey is less violent (oh yeah and the fans dont ruin important playoff games by trying catch flying balls), but baseball is more boring than almost all sports but bowling (no more Dunkin' Donuts to sponsor the tour) and dominos (Fox Sports World late Friday nights). I will now sit down and take my place back on the bench (judicial).
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Posted by: omo gishu at October 16, 2003 08:51 AMDoug and Travis,
Today while at the peaks we saw a flier which we believe might end this hockey controversy. Here it is, documented proof:
"BYU HOCKEY CLUB"
"The only club on campus dedicated the only sport worth watching." [sic]
So here it is, documented proof. Do with it what you will.
I think they got you on that one.
Posted by: kerri at October 16, 2003 05:44 PMBriant- good point. We need a sport with action, fast-paced movement, and lots of scoring. Did someone just describe BASKETBALL? Well, well, looks like it always ends up this way.
Posted by: rich at October 17, 2003 07:19 AMBaksetball is ok, but I meant soccer and hockey. But let's get back to making fun of baseball (aka Doug). I think it appropriate to bring up movies based on baseball like "Rookie of the Year", "Ty Cobb", "The Babe", and "Major League" which are all but worthless use of analog recording tape. Granted, there are good baseball movies ("Bad News Bears" and "Bull Durham"), but look at hockey movies. There are only a few and they are all quality. "Slapshot" is zestier than Newman's salad dressing. "The Cutting Edge" is a romantic comedy, but also thouroughly enjoyable. Of course we cant forget "The Mighty Ducks" which inspired Anaheim to the finals last year. Also, at baseball games the ground is always sticky and your shoes get yucky.
Posted by: briant at October 17, 2003 02:59 PM