December 15, 2004

most retarded quotation of the modern era

some guy from some atheist organization went on national tv last night and defended the expelling of christmas carols from public schools with this statement:

"jesus is not the reason for christmas."

hey idiot! if christ isn't the reason for christmas, then what's the problem with singing about him in the darn songs? he must not be the reason for the songs, either (the songs all just happen to mention him).

hey, i think we've found our solution! normal americans go on singing the songs. you go on telling yourself that god doesn't exist and that christ is a figment of people's imaginations. sweet!

on the other hand, christmas (besides the curiously religious-sounding root of the word--i'll look into it!) is a federal holiday. religion--civil religion, not some state church--is an integral part of our national culture. it does contribute to public morality (without which the people could not be governed). crapola, it's important!

so give us all a break, moronic atheists, from your assumptions that EVERY.SINGLE.MENTION.OF.GOD. is somehow an unpardonable proselytistic act by an oppressive state religion.
- - - - - -
UPDATE I: here's the transcript. the guy's name is timothy gorsky, from the church of free thought.

UPDATE II: for further discussion, check out the comments below the post here.

Posted by travis at December 15, 2004 02:00 AM | TrackBack
Comments

Well, actually he's both right and wrong, historic evidence shows that Jesus was crucified in the summer. When the church spread Christianity to the northern European countries they found it sometimes convenient to turn a heathen fest into a christian fest. Obviously this was the case with christmas, which was held at the same time as a heathen fest that had similar symbolic meaning. This all made it easier for the people to accept Christianity.

Posted by: Henk at December 15, 2004 08:14 AM

henk, you're right, and the guest tried to make that point in the interview. however, with the discussion centered around christmas hymns (which were certainly not part of any pagan ceremony) it's a pretty lame argument.

my church teaches that christ was born on april 6, but we still celebrate in december with everyone else. that doesn't make it a non-jesus holiday. i promise it wouldn't exist without jesus.

as part of a conversion tool, the early church adopted a pagan holiday date and the converts translated their traditions onto the celebration of the birth of jesus. i'm not exactly sure what those traditions were (decorating trees and getting drunk out of their minds are a couple of likely ones). but giving gifts a-la the three wise men, and carols that mention the savior's birth and eternal sacrifice offering salvation to all mankind are noticeably unique.

jesus is the reason for christmas--as it is currently constituted. he may not the inspiration for people's traditions of decorating trees and getting drunk, but without christ, there would be no christmas in 2004.

Posted by: travis at December 15, 2004 08:48 AM

historic evidence shows that Jesus was crucified in the summer

Christmas is actually a celebration of His birth, not His crucifixion.

Nonetheless, you are right that the holiday was moved from warmer weather months so that it would coincide with the winter solstice.

Posted by: doug at December 15, 2004 02:01 PM

The things the ancients did to propagate the faith are immaterial to the basic question: of course Jesus is the reason for Christmas. No parsing of the issue, no discussing the policy decisions of the early church, or whatever, can make the referenced statement anything other than rampant boobery.

That respect for Christian morals form one of, if not the important aspect of our civil governance should be beyond dispute. Every single Founding Father, every single public figure, and almost every single citizen - until the ACLU decided to take up the defense of John Scopes - believed so.

The logical gyrations (or rampant illogic) of the areligious and the antireligious are amazing to behold.

I like that statement, Travis: "Give us a break, moronic atheists."

Rock on, and Merry Christmas

Posted by: Paulie at The Commons at December 15, 2004 04:01 PM

What's the point? Wasn't Jesus the reason for the Spanish Inquisition?

(For the record, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.)

Posted by: David King Landrith at December 25, 2004 04:52 PM

yes. as i pointed out here http://provopulse.com/home/?q=node/view/571#comment, gorsky's comment is as vacuous as his noggin.

gorsky's argument was completely lame. if non-christians celebrate christmas, it is because of jesus [by] hypothetical syllogism.

if non-christians do not celebrate christmas, then gorsky's comment is irrelevant. the christmas season is not something that they observe. he might as well have said,

"jesus is not the reason that non-christians do nothing in december."

[how profound!] it is not an argument, it is a stupifyingly meaningless observation...

and i assume you mean "'respects' the spanish inquisition"?

Posted by: travis at December 25, 2004 07:14 PM

Actually, I did mean, "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

This may seem like an odd thing to say, but if you'll think about it, you'll quickly see that it is true. For example, do you expect the Spanish Inquisition? When you were in school discussing Copernicus and Gallileao, did you expect the Spanish Inquisition? Did Copernicus and Gallileao themselves ever expect the Spanish Inquisition.

The answer, of course, is NO, because nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition. This is just one of those facts of the matter that you have to accept, and then move on.

Posted by: David King Landrith at December 25, 2004 10:53 PM

oh travis, travis, travis.
do read:
http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/spanish.htm
and if you get a chance watch as well. It was one of the more entertaining sketches those crazy brits did.

Posted by: Mike at December 27, 2004 11:03 PM

I like how you think, slugger!

Posted by: Big Bob at February 6, 2005 01:33 AM
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