Jul
15th
2006
File Under: Cranky Dictadorzuelo
Feeling neglected, Chavez lambasts Israel and the U.S. vis-a-vis the Middle East crisis.
26 Responses to “File Under: Cranky Dictadorzuelo”
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As usual, President Chavez is correct. By no stretch of the imagination can the Israeli massacres be deemed proportionate (one IDF occupation soldier taken prisoner in Gaza = IDF murdering at least 29 Palestinians [mostly women & children] so far; two IDF soldiers taken prisoner in Lebanon = more than 59 Lebanese [mostly civilians] butchered). By all accounts, Israel is only allowed to ignore international law, common decency, and butcher with impunity because of U.S. protection.
President Chavez, as usual, has hit the nail on the head.
Americans for Chavez
http://www.americans-for-chavez.com
Bolivarian Circle ‘Chief Tierra Blanca’
I see you got the same comment I did from the “Americans for Chavez” I marked his comment on my site as spam but it appears to be word for word.
Darrell
Ridiculous. This whole situation could have been avoided if Israel had obeyed the numerous UN security council resolutions it has ignored which direct it to immediately desert the occupied territories.
Israel has been abducting Palestinians at a far higher rate than vice versa. They also killed a family on the beach with a missile just a few days before the soldier abductions. Their destruction of the electricity and water to 1.4 million people in Gaza will result in far more deaths and misery to the Gazans than their bombs will.
Chavez is right to criticize the US government for vetoing a UN security council resolution which condemned Israel for their disproportionate response.
Doubtful.
I might also add, Joe Biden and Newt Gingrich talked about this on Meet the Press today.
I’ll try to post some audio clips later, but you can watch the whole program online. The Israel bit is right at the beginning.
I’m sure you think Israel is not to blame in this incident either.
[editor: WARNING, graphic images]
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m24684&hd=0&size=1&l=e
War is hell. I wish it wasn’t happening.
Unlike Hezbollah, however, the Israeli military doesn’t have a goal to slaughter civilians. To me, at least, that is a fundamental distinction.
Since Lebanon has been unwilling/unable to control the southern portion of their country, Israel is now taking out the infrastructure that Hezbollah uses to kill Israelis.
By the way, it isn’t so doubtful that Israel killed the family on the beach.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/20/israb13595.htm
Curtis, you may enjoy browsing the Human Rights Watch – Venezuela page:
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu
And thanks for the link to the Israel article.
The USA page is 60 pages longer though.
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa
Curtis and all you other peace-loving hippies:
If a spider bit you, would you try to get tweezers and “bite” it back under a microscope?
Wow, now Israel has apparently given Syria 72 hours to hand over the abducted soldiers or face consequences. As you know Iran has promised to stand by Syria. It sounds like a longshot, but if Israel does actually hit Syria, get ready for all heck to break loose.
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m24704&hd=0&size=1&l=e
Are you going to answer my question? Or was it too stinging and destructive to the “proportionate” position?
ok, I’ll answer your question cautiously since on the surface it appears to be an asinine question in some attempt to ridicule me and my desires for peace. But, in case this is not the case, I’ll give you my sincere answer: No.
The only problem with your analogy Ryan, is that the Palestinians are not spiders. That’s seems to be a tendency in western thinking though… these people are some sort of low life, or lesser existence and thus a thousand of their deaths don’t equal a thousand of our deaths. It’s the same way the Germans thought of the Jews in WWII. It’s what we see in the media pertaining to Iraqis. It’s definitely all over the media when it comes to Israeli vs. Arab lives.
Proportionality of response should assume that both parties are starting our on equal footing as well. There is no comparison in military might. Gazans started off with their necks under the foot of the Israeli occupation. Things were way out of proportion long before the current situation.
In fact here’s a good example of that from John Bolton (US Ambassador to the UN) today.
“It’s simply not the same thing to say that it’s the same act to deliberately target innocent civilians, to desire their deaths, to fire rockets and use explosive devices or kidnapping versus the sad and highly unfortunate consequences of self-defense,” Bolton noted.
Here’s another expression of that tendency:
Actress and columnist Maureen Lipman on BBC 1’s This Week programme of 13 July, said: “Human life is not cheap to the Israelis, and human life on the other side is quite cheap actually…”
[Editor: Link removed. Quota of links to graphic photos exceeded.]
Bolton is distinguishing, as I did, the willful targetting of civilians from the civilian casualties of war.
Lipman is arguing that Israelis value life, they don’t send their young sons and daughters to blow themselves up in Palestinian pizza parlors or night clubs.
I’m making an analogy between size (or military strength). The argument of a “proportionate” response has no moral footing. Unmerciful terror acts do not warrant retaliation of “proportionate” impact. They warrant a harsh and punishing response that communicates intolerance for barbaric behavior. If you disagree, I suppose you can fill out some Darwin award applications for the Israelis and see if they’ll sign them.
Its really more about right and wrong than it is about the size of the response.
Also, desires for peace I share with you. However, to assume that evil is not alive and well in the hearts of men around the world (surprisingly prevalent among many Arabs) is naive and will result in less peace in the long term.
First to Doug,
I’m not sure if I’m quite making my point in comparing “terrorists” or Arab lives to Israeli or our own. Here is perhaps a better example in this analysis of the BBC’s reporting of an escalation in the fighting, referring to 8 Israeli civilians killed while 130 lebanese civilians did not warrant the same media hype:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10591
To Ryan,
“Unmerciful terrorist acts,” lie in the eye of the beholder. Many on the other side of the border would say that the murders of 700 children in Gaza since the beginning of the intifada is unmerciful terrorism. Just prior to the recent soldier abductions, a 15 year old girl pushed an Israeli soldier and ran when he was doing a “body search” on her at a border check point. She was shot 3 times and when she awoke from her coma was sentenced to a year and a half in jail.
Israel has all the power and might in the area. When they use that power and might wrongly is that on the level of evil of a “terrorist” similarly killing civilians?
The barbarism demonstrated by Israeli forces warrants retaliation at least in kind. However, Palestinian forces don’t have the resources to retaliate in kind and do what they can. That is why Palestinian deaths are 10-1 over Israeli deaths.
Clearly you don’t see what Hell the Israeli forces put Palestinian people thru that drives them to such desparate measures as suicide bombing. There is no disproportionate amount of evil in Arabs hearts. I’m sure it is even across the board.
It should be noted that not only was the Gaza soldier abductions an action provoked by Israel, but the Hezbollah abductions were also provoked. Apparently Israel has been using live ammunition for training on the Lebanese border and has killed Lebanese sheperds there prior to the abductions.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10589
My sincere impression is that the reason for the “hellish” treatment of the Palestinians is because of their past conduct.
I appreciate that, but I think we need to look at history and get a clear look at the real situation there now in order to properly weigh who is to blame for what.